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for granted, three great civil rights laws, medicare, just the vibrancy in those tapes, all you have to do is listen and he's back alive again swearing and being the most fascinating person that i've ever met in public life. and the books are helping because they create this giant character. he deserves it. >> and giant situations in front of him the way he came in as well as the way he left. >> a giant character and also -- >> dark clouds. >> you were there closely with him, but also so complicated. our relationships with our presidents are so personal, and the fact is he accomplished remarkable things politically. and yet you never get through a couple of pages of carol's books where you go, ew, this was not a good guy. >> i don't think -- that's not true. i disagree that he's not a good guy. he's a strange guy. >> they're all strange. >> there are not many presidents that take you into the bathroom and talk to you while they're in the bathroom. >> not enough. >> there's not many presidents that when he talks to you violates the normal human space between people so your head is right up
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